Poll: You Make the Call on the Jets Coach and GM in 2015

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I asked this on Twitter today and got a number of responses so I thought it was worth adding as a poll to make it easier to collect responses.

I closed the poll after getting a reasonable number of replies on it and I’ll go over the responses now:

1. Retain Rex Ryan and John Idzik (4.2%)– This ended up as the least popular option indicating that the fanbase is pretty fed up with this tandem and does not believe they can operate together. Even knowing tht it was playoffs or bust with this scenario most just figured its best to move on.

2. Retain John Idzik and Hire a New Coach (12.3%)– Clearly there was not much support for letting Idzik continue as GM. As I have speculated before he is getting the lions share of the blame for the mess the Jets are in and people dont want to risk more with him. Knowing that this option may only have a one year shelf life probably doesnt help.

3. Retain Rex Ryan and Hire a “Rex Guy” as GM (31.5%)– I should not have been surprised with this one but part of me was suprised that Rex got this much support. There are really a large number of fans that love Rex and look at him as part of the solution. Nearly 37% wanted Rex back next year compared to just 16.5% for Idzik.

4. Clean House and Start Over (52%)– This was the majority opinion that the Jets need to get rid of everyone and start over next year with a new team calling all the shots. Id think this is the leading option for Woody Johnson as well but it was not exactly an overwhelming opinion to get rid of both guys.

Feel free to add any thoughts in the comments.

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  • Jim

    If Woody had any inclination to hire a “Rex Guy” as a GM, he would have done so two years ago after he fired Tanny. For better or worse, it’s going to be Idzik and a new HC, next year or new GM and HC. I’m ok with either scenario.

    Rex is a good coach and I wouldn’t be shocked to see him as a HC in the SB one day, but he needs a new environment, it’s not going to work in NY. I think he would really do well in Atlanta, with a competent offense already in place, a couple pieces in defense to build around, and decent amount of cap dollars to go get some “Rex” veterans to fill out the defense (K. Ellis, L. Douzable, D. Harris, Revis?). Dwight Lowery is already there, just need some LB’s. If the Falcons lose Sunday, they will also have a top-10 pick (Dante Fowler?)

  • buk

    I listened to Jason’s podcast and he(like many) felt the Pats would blow out the Jets. So how to explain losing twice to the Pats by a total of 3 pts even though the Pats have Brady,Gronk,Browner and Revis? I’m sorry guys I’ve heard all the arguments about new scenery etc but Rex I just can’t support firing a good coach unless i’m sold on his replacement.
    Although Sanchez, Revis ,Cromartie and Tannebaum were all under contract when Jet management got rid of them I understood there were valid arguments to support the moves at the time. My fear as a Jet fan is that we repeat the same mistake over and over again by replacing talent we are not quite happy with worse players and coaches than we just got rid of.
    Hear me out. OC-Was Sparano or Marty really any better Schotty was? Special Teams- Since Westhoff left we’ve hired 2 special team coaches who have coached the worst special teams the Jets have had in decades. Is a crime for us to ever return a punt or kickoff for a TD or block a punt or field goal like ever? GM-Without a doubt Tannebaum was a superior GM than Idzik, with the exception of Tebow you can track Tannebaum’s moves in retrospect and at least understand what he was trying to do which you can’t do with Idzik(hence the sabotage claims). QB-We’ve seen 2yrs of Geno while reliving the limitations of Sanchez in Philly and it’s still obvious Sanchez is a far better QB. Cornerbacks-We traded/cut Revis and Cromartie and replaced them with Milliner who never plays, Patterson who never played and a bunch of undrafted free agents. I understand in the NFL there nobody stands pat and there is turnover but we got rid of some key players all under 30 and replaced them with scrubs.
    Sorry guys why fire one of top defensive minds to hopefully replace him with better when it’s blatantly obvious the lack of talent on this roster. I also don’t want to hear another word about quarterback guru because Trestman has done nothing with Cutler and Chip Kelley’s Sanchez looked a lot like Ryan’s Sanchez except Kelly has yet to win a playoff game in Philly. I’m amazed that for 2nd year straight Ryan has gotten this Jets team to play this hard down the stretch when they were already eliminated from the playoffs. It’s a shame there is not enough talent to match the effort.

    • Jim

      We’ve gone back and forth on this a few times. You correctly point out that the OC has been lacking in Ryan’s tenure. You correctly point out that QB play has been poor. You correctly point out that certain draft picks and free agent signings have not worked out.

      I think you understate Ryan’s role in all of this. Don’t you think Rex had a voice in the Sanchez pick? The Geno Smith pick? The Patterson signing? The OC choices over the years? I’m not saying he’s ultimately responsible for all these moves, but I’d have to think he’s had a voice in personnel decisions. I’m sure a few of Tanny and Idzik’s draft choices have been pet picks of the GM’s. Just like I’m sure Ryan had his say over a pick/FA or two that the GM wasn’t 100% sold on as well. Which ones, who knows. Point being, by and large the HC and GM work together on these sort of things. If the HC is not intimately involved on those decisions, then it’s really not a coach or GM problem we have, it’s owner problem that’s going to carry over no matter who’s coaching or drafting.

      To give Ryan all the credit for the defense and little/no blame of the offense or personnel problems, is a very narrow view of things. Especially now after 4 years of no post-season, with 3 OC’s and 2 QB’s.

      As for playing hard down the stretch, we all know the Jets will always get up and give it their best against NE since Parcells. But what about the Buffalo games? What about KC? What about last year weeks 11-13? Look at the whole picture!

      Lastly, if you read over a thejetsblog, the go over game by game, position by position. If you believe them, most of the damage done against the Jets defensively this season, has been on blown coverages. That tells me Ryan has this defense playing over their head, too complex of a system for the players. As a coach, you’ve got to know your players, what they can and can’t handle mentally. A time here or there is going to happen, and is expected, but the blown coverages for long TD’s have been a staple for this team all year, and it’s been everyone: Allen, Pryor, Walls, Landry, etc. There is no one more responsible for those consistent breakdowns, then the coach.

      • buk

        As a Jet fan all we need to do is watch the games. You’ve seen Walls and Allen get beat , outmuscled and overmatched all year. Do you really believe this is about complex defenses and blown coverages. Off the top of my head. Landry has no picks in 2yrs. Walls has 2 picks this year, one was on a hail mary and the other popped off the ground on an errant throw in Miami. Antonio Allen and Pryor have zero after dropping potential interceptions thrown right to them. Jarret has 2 and we got one Sunday for a total of 7(?) after 15 games. Wilson has not had an int since 2012. How many players in our secondary were not on the roster in training camp or undrafted free agents with less than 3yrs in and out of the NFL. How many blown coverages did we have when Revis and Cromartie were on the team. Inexperienced players with little to no talent in a passing league means big plays. Sometimes it isn’t excuses and there are legit reasons for this level of dropoff.
        As for Jets Blog I listen to their podcast and have a serious disagreement with one of their hosts who says over and over this is a “far more” talented roster than when Idzik took over. Correct me if i’m wrong, Idzik inherited a defense with Davis,Snacks,Coples,Wilkerson,Revis,Cromartie,Harris, and the Landry brother who can play vs the stiff Landry playing for min vet contract right now. What GM would not LOVE to start with that nucleus of a defense with most of those players on cheap rookie contracts and only one free agent with Laron Landry.
        Idzik did not resign Landry, but instead signed his older less talented brother. He traded Revis, cut Cromartie and brought in Richardson plus Milliner who never plays. I’m sorry but when you dismantle a pro bowl secondary with corners that had years left on their currents and replace them with oft injured players and undrafted free agents the defense is not worse today. I love Sheldon, but Revis is HOF player and Idzik chose not to spend the money they saved not paying Revis.
        Of course Rex had say in the draft, but I don’t think he had much say in draft or free agency under Idzik. You really believe Rex would let DRC walk out door for the Giants, or not put a call in to Revis after he got cut by Tampa or not resign Cromartie over Patterson for a 1yr 4 mil deal??? C’mon, Rex was practically Revis’s agent when he held out 5yrs ago. Also Sanchez was not a bust, he can start in this league and you were within one game of a superbowl his first 2 years unlike Geno. At best Geno has shown he could be a back up in this league. Geno was awful last year and the Jets cut Sanchez and put their franchise in the hands of a 2nd rd pick. You think that was a Rex move with his job on the line or an Idzik decision. For all the talk about competition how about the Jets handing Geno the job and giving him 75% of the reps in training camp. Nobody goes into a season 24mil under the cap then pays Harvin 7mil mid season when you are 1 & 6 and can argue you did enough in the offseason.
        Ultimately I think we’ll get the change you want which I can understand but as you can tell i’m not an Idzik fan. I don’t buy he knows what he is doing but worse than that I question his motivations for the moves he didn’t make. I think Woody was talked out of his more aggressive nature and sold the “plan” by Idzik. Woody bragged last year that they would spend this offseason with so much cap space but they did not. Woody was accused of tampering when he publicly expressed interest in Desean Jackson while he was still with Eagles. Later Jets never traded for Jackson or pursued as a free agent. Had to be Idzik in his ear. As corner after corner NOT named Revis was signed in free agency it had to be Idzik stressing patience. Woody is owner who fled Favre here on a private jet, moved up for Sanchez, traded for Cromartie, Holmes and Braylon Edwards to win now, hired Mangini out from under Bellichick. Not only that but he is fond of Rex, if he feelshe has to fire Rex based on this roster which is part of IDzik’s plan it does not bode well for Idzik.
        Thanks for debate

        • McGeorge

          Revis was just playing the Jets, don’t blame Idzik or anyone else for not keeping him.
          And even with Revis, the team stinks.
          DRC is being paid a lot, with a big guarantee – lets see how he does over his entire contract. He’s been good the last couple of games against scrubs, but he’s had some bad plays earlier in the season.

          They let Cromartie go for Dimitri Paterson? Now that was a god awful blunder.

          • Anthony

            Cromartie was 118 of 120 rated CBs in 2012. He was 29. They made a judgement call that he would not be the same guy.

            I’m tired of everyone making this argument all after the fact. The truth is, after 2012 Darren Walls looked like a competent league average #2 CB (which hs still does). They signed a league average #2 in patterson. They used a 3rd round pick on a CB.

            Of that they got 2 torn ACLs, and one guy who went loony toons on the team.

            Of the top 4 CBs, 3 are not on the roster in any meaningful capacity.

          • McGeorge

            Cromartie was terrible in 2013, supposedly his hip was bothering him.
            As a fan, who has limited knowledge of the detailed medical situation, it seemed ok to let him go. Except he made a full recovery and isn’t being paid a huge amount (I think it’s 3.75MM). This year he’s been ok, and good value for that low salary. Maybe it ws just “bad luck” that letting him go was teh wrong call, or maybe it was poor player evaluation.

            Dimitri Paterson was always a back up, and planning on having him as a starting CB was rather risky, and even if not cut, he played poorly in the pre-season. Going into the season not having a starting Corner Back was plain stupid. If your starters get injured during the season, it’s bad luck, but if it’s pre-season and you have a chance to correct it and don’t, it’s poor management. Unless you plan on tanking the season.

            Dee Miliner improved towards the end of last year, but that doesn’t mean he would be good this year. To expect him to be a competent starter would be expecting too much. He was face guarding later last year, and would have picked up pass interference calls like that.

            McDougle was a 3rd round pick. You can never count on a 3rd round pick to start, at any position. Thats wishful thinking. They might be able to start. They might take a year or two or three to develop. And they might be a washout.

            Its not any one move Idzik made or didn’t make, it’s the summation of all his moves. One or two players/picks that don’t work out can be explained away, but not 90% of his failed moves. Maybe Idzik is a good GM and just extremely unlucky (call it a 5% chance) or maybe he’s a poor GM (95% chance).
            He’s owed nothing, and it makes sense to fire him.

          • buk

            I agree with your last point in that Idzik has done nothing to gain jet fans trust or loyalty. Can we all at least agree that trading a fan fave and talent like Revis or cutting and not resigning Cromartie for cheap after whiffing on every other top CB free agent deserves some explanation to the fans. 24 mil under the cap and major holes on the roster coming into the season need some context or explanation. What’s Idzik’s plan? His timetable? His philosophy? Since he got here all we heard was “play like a Jet” as if that means something in this league or when you’re losing.
            Don’t hide behind Rex, sell the fans on your “plan” what that is. As Jet fans we HATE the Patriots. So the biggest indictment on Idzik’s first 2 yrs is nobody can honestly say his decisions were focused on beating New England and for first time in years I felt the overall talent of the team fell below that of Bills and Dolphins. Rex is the same coach, so what’s changed the last 2yrs? I’m sorry but we play in a division where Brady and Bellichick have dominated for more than a decade. Every offseason has to be about beating the Patriots first and foremost. Revis and Browner signing in NE cannot go unanswered without impactful moves of your own in free agency.
            Why not engage in talks with Edelman or Revis, at worst you may drive up the price or sign Edelman who has led NE in receptions for last 2yrs. And in this league with Brady, etc you’ve got to have competent corners especially with Rex Ryan as your coach.
            Real shame.

          • McGeorge

            >>Cromartie was 118 of 120 rated CBs in 2012.

            Rated by who PFF? He was pretty bad. But PFF is just one source of evaluation. They are a benchmark, though maybe not that accurate.
            How about advancedfootballanalytics.com or Football Outsiders.

        • Jim

          First, I’m not sure how much you can blame a GM for player injuries (Milliner, McDougle). If you could, should we blame him for Cromartie playing injured last season?

          And even if you do blame Idzik for signing/drafting guys with major injury histories, how can you in the same breath, criticize him for not resigning (oft-injured) Cromartie and Laron Landry?!?! And Revis who missed 17 games of his last 3 seasons in NY?

          Speaking of Laron Landry, who has missed 8 games the last two years, has been suspended, and is now a rotational player for a Colts defense that has been reeling in the 2nd half. He has no interceptions since leaving the Jets (Dewan has one) and fewer tackles, while being paid $6 mil/year. Dewan hasn’t been lighting the world on fire for the Jets, but at least he’s been healthy, and somewhat of a stabilizing piece in the Jets secondary. That’s not a move to criticize.

          DRC isn’t exactly lighting it up with the Giants this season either

          • buk

            Cromartie and Revis were not oft injured players for the Jets. And the fact is both Revis and Cromartie are going to the pro bowl this year on 1 yr deals. If Idzik wants to let Landry,Revis or Cro go then fine, but what did you replace them with? How many teams would Dawan Landry start on the last 2 yrs and the CB has been a joke. I do agree it’s too early to judge Idzik’s draft completely, but it is troubling how many of his picks are hurt on not contributing on active roster of a 3-12 team.
            Lastly you failed to address the most important issue. Geno has been terrible after starting nearly 30 games for the Jets. There is not enough of the right talent around him which is job of the GM.

          • Jim

            Pick your poison on Cromartie. Either he was “injured” all of 2013 and that’s why he played so poorly, or he just played poorly. I know he didn’t miss too many games, I’ve just heard it as an excuse whenever he didn’t play well. And it is a fact, that Revis missed 17 games in his last 3 seasons.

            You may find it troubling that many of Idziks picks are hurt, but that doesn’t make it his fault that they are hurt, or that “he should have known”. Correlation does not equal causation. Maybe they needed a better strength and conditioning coach. Maybe they needed a little less intensity during training camp. Maybe they were a little too lazy in the off-season. I don’t know, but it’s tough to automatically pin it on the GM, when a 3rd and 4th rd draft pick blow out a knee and a shoulder before the first pre-season game.

            Geno has been not good. His best games are average, his worst games, are historic. QB always has been, and always will be a crapshoot. You mentioned previously how they cut Sanchez and Geno is worse. That may be, but you can’t criticize his release, there was no way Sanchez was going to work in NY, not with every NY and ESPN writer making it there own personal mission to mention a certain Thanksgiving day play against the Pats, as many times, and in as many ways as possible. I don’t know a single Jets fan who thought “gosh, we really need to bring Sanchez back”.

            This is QB’s work in the NFL: you throw something against the wall and see if it sticks. If it doesn’t you move on. Sometimes the QB is worse, some time he’s better. But until you find a guy that can get you to the next level, it’s neither here, nor there who is “better”. How excited do you think Bills fans are, because Kyle Orton is “better” than EJ Manual? I live in WNY, let me tell you: not very.

            I’m not a huge Idzik fan, I’m not trying to convince anyone that he even should be back. Yes I think he could have done better at CB in free agency (but no, not Cromartie), and WR in the draft, but it’s absolutely ridiculous to hear how many of the Jets problems are “his fault”.

            Let’s look at a few things that he did do right.

            1. “Reaching” for DROY Sheldon Richardson in the draft
            2. Keeping D. Harrison (he didn’t sign him, but could have easily been an offseason cut after not recording a single statistic the year before)
            3. Not resigning Laron Landry for big money
            4. Oday Aboushi looks like a good player, esp. for a 5th rd pick
            5. Signing Willie Colon and Jason Babin for cheap (both moves criticized at the time, esp. Colon for his injuries in previous years)

            It’s not like everything he’s touched has been bad.

            Obviously jury is still out on Pryor, Amaro, Milliner, McDougle, Evans. Haven’t contributed meaningfully yet, but there’s a lot of opportunities still for these guys. The first three guys have flashed enough to give solid hope they’ll at least be decent starters, the latter two haven’t played a snap yet.

            This will be my last post on the subject.

  • McGeorge

    I’m 100% for firing Idzik.
    I’m 90% for firing Rex.

    I would certainly fire Rex because the Jets under his tenure are poor offensively, poorly coached, poor player development, and poor execution during game day.
    The Jets drafting while Rex has been there has been poor, and while he’s not the GM, he still has influence.

    However – there are many worse coaches in the NFL than Rex, and it’s not so easy to get a good coach, so I consider it quite possible that the new HC will not be as good as Rex.
    I’d still fire Rex, because he’s not a good HC, but it could be a while before the Jets get a decent coach.

  • Anthony

    Idzik brought in Ivory, Decker, and Percy Harvin for what will amount to be two 4th round picks and a mid level WR contract. Those are the three best offensive players this team has had since the Curtis Martin years. Pryor has been better recently, Amaro is criminally underused, Richardson is playing at an awesome rate and the roster is top to bottom deeper.

    I’m not going to defend John Idzik and every decision he’s made, but he has been far from incompetent. This team has been a failure at so many levels, but they are not severely out classed from a talent standpoint.

    This team is not good, but they are not the Raiders, or the Jags. They are poorly coached on all three sides of the ball. The offense does not know what they want to do from one game to the next. One week we run 40 times, in the next we get into the redzone and run shotgun spread plays forgetting that we are a power rushing team.

    This team is bipolar, and it needs to stop.

    One week the Jets defense makes Tom Brady look like Kyle Orton, and the next they make Kyle Orton look like Tom Brady.

    The special teams is the most consistent unit on the team… in that they are always poorly coached. From giving up FG and punt blocks, to not knowing when and we not to fair catch the ball.

    • McGeorge

      >>Idzik brought in Ivory, Decker, and Percy Harvin

      And with the exception of the Sheldon Richardson draft pick, almost every player he’s picked in 2 years is a bust, or a disappointment. He also brought in Chris Johnson who has not worked out.

      The Ivory trade was excellent – an A.
      The Decker signing was ok, I’ll give it a B or B+.
      As for the Harvin trade – the jury is out, we don’t know how it’s going to pan out long term.

    • buk

      Fair enough , but let’s move on from good coaching/bad coaching because I think you are doing what we Jet fans always do which is overrate our talent.
      Ivory-nice trade, but not an elite back meaning defenses don’t have to gameplan for him. He is ok in blitz pick and terrible catching balls out of the backfield which led to some huge drops this year. Does Idzik get credit because Mike(gun charge) Goodson played 1 more quarter than Dimitri Patterson ever did? These were two free agent signings that Idzik went after that never contributed at all for off the field issues. As for Johnson, I could excuse his production as a change of pace back except that we are paying him 4 mil when other teams find low draft pick running backs that contribute for the minimum.
      Decker-Decker is solid number 2 receiver. Think about it, we came into this season with Decker,Kerley and David Nelson as our starting 3 coming off a lucky 8-8 season in a division with the Patriots. Nelson doesn’t make the roster on 31 other teams so how does he start when you have a WR rich draft and 24mil under the cap. No excuses, because both Nelson and Hill were on the Jets last year so you knew what they were and both were off ANY active roster in the league by wk 8. Idzik didn’t draft a receiver the first three rds so it is inexcusable to enter a season without 3 starting caliber WR. That is how losses pile up because when Decker’s hamstring acts up you are forced to give major minutes to Kerley,Nelson and Salas with the latter 2 guys not even with the team and probably out of leasgue for good.
      Special teams-Can someone explain after another offseason and drafting Saunders in 4th rd who was cut returning for the Saints we still have Kerley (from tannenbaum) era returning punts. This is after Powell, Saunders, etc could not be trusted after huge fumbles.
      Who here felt comfortable at corner entering season with Milliner and Patterson against the elite QB we had to face? I’m willing to give a pass to Idzik if players get hurt, but the injury history of Milliner and McDougle in college was extensive and they’ve gotten hurt in the pros.
      I just believe Idzik’s 2nd offseason has been that bad. On the positive side the man has yet to sign a bad contract with any player which gives us incredible cap flexibility for years to come. This is why i’m not opposed to going one more year with Rex and Idzik. One good draft and a more aggressive targeted approach in free agency could get us back to an 8 or 9 win team fairly easily even if we haven’t found our franchise QB yet.

    • chrisdog

      HA! I Hear this argument all the time, Just because Decker and Harvin are good does not mean they were the best options. Decker came here to be in a big market for his wifes career. It had nothing to do with Idzik! Harvin was selected mid season when it became clear that there was a Dearth of talent at the position. He cost 8 million and could only play a few games. Had Idzik brought some corners and Deshawn Jackson to NY, as well as not insist that his BUST Geno be the starter, than maybe he would not be lambasted by the media. I think Vick, Decker, DeShawn Jackson, and who knows, a trade for Hardin anyways, and you may be a 8 to 9 win team this year.

      • Anthony

        Desean Jackson is on a 4-11 team. He’s not a difference maker, and is a known cancer.

        Vick has a 52% completion percentage 3 TDs 2Int’s and 5 fumbles.

        He’s not good either.

        • buk

          Jackson was on a playoff last year so the fact that he is on a 4-11 team this year says nothing about his talent as WR. Why not get Jackson in the offseason vs the mid season pick up of Harvin is fair argument. If you traded for Jackson for a 6th or 7th rd pick(similar to Harvin) I believe Jackson had no guaranteed money due to him on his remaining deal like Harvin. Jackson was eventually cut signed for less annual money at about 8 mil per with I think 16 mil guaranteed.
          If Idzik didn’t want a “cancer” like Jackson in the locker room then fine but he was no more a cancer then what was confirmed about Harvin. Harvin has a significant injury history where Jackson does not and ideally you’d like to integrate a player like Harvin or Jackson in training camp so they can help the Jets for a full season.
          Here’s the problem I have with Idzik. Numerous reports stated the Jets never made the call to inquire about Jackson via trade or when he was a free agent. This was after Woody Johnson expressed interest. When players like Revis,Jackson,Flowers etc surprisingly hit free agency due diligence demands you kick the tires when you have obvious needs and you have a ton of cap space. Trading for Harvin when you’re 1-6 from a team he could not fit in with that just won a Superbowl is a reactionary move that proves the obvious.
          I’d like to ask those where you rank Harvin as WR vs other top WR in the league. He is NOT an elite or true WR imo. Megatron, Jackson, Antonio Brown, Beckham,Cruz, Benjamin, D. Thomas, Dez Bryant, S.Watkins, Jordy Nelson are all better. Salary aside, I think Mike Wallace is a better true receiver. Harvin is not a true deep threat even though he’s fast and not a red zone threat because he is too small. As a route runner and receiver in general I think he’s pretty good like a better version of Cobb in Green Bay. Problem is I wouldn’t pay players like Harvin or Cobb 10 mil per year and Decker is nowhere close to Jordy Nelson so that he commands a double team.
          Many make the mistake of overrating the Jet WR. Kerley,Harvin or Decker don’t command a double coverage or be defense played with a deep safety. Any defense playing against Dez,Megatron, Beckham,Jackson or even Wallace they must gameplan for those players or keep a deep safety over the top. I really believe Decker and the running would really benefit from a true deep threat like Jackson or even Wallace rather than Harvin. You can’t put 8 or 9 in the box to stop the run like Miami if you fear the ball being thrown over your head. It’s obvious the Jets roster was poorly constructed, Decker is a solid number 2 without a real number 1.

        • chrisdog

          what a ridiculous argument… Vick is clearly better than Geno Smith and his stats are in garbage time with little practice, and they are STILL better than Geno, And your laughable comments on Jackson clearly denote your lack of football knowledge, He has been top 3 the league in deep plays, yards and receptions since forever….